{code:none}
11:16  * stephan hates generics / templates
11:16 < stephan> Too much hype and all I get is 
      cast-free collections.
11:16 < stephan> If I really need them, I just inherit one.
11:17 < Karl> I think generics are good, it's mostly 
      about cast-free collections
11:18 < stephan> I think they are overhyped. They might be useful, 
      but for very few cases. 
      This doesn't justify making Java much more complex to
      understand and read.
11:18 < Karl> ah, sam showed my example
11:18 < Karl> the int length = map.get("key").length(); not working
11:18 < stephan> I wrote thousands of line of Java and I never had 
      a cast problem from a collection 
      (because I put something wrong in there)
11:18  * jstrachan hates generics too
11:18 < stephan> Karl: grats.
11:18 < jstrachan> agreed
11:19 < jstrachan> its ironic, the main use case for casting was
      iterating through a collection
11:19 < jstrachan> then 1.5 has a foreach thingy to avoid that case
11:19 < stephan> yeah. exactly.
11:19 < Karl> hehe, that's true
11:19 < jstrachan> so most of the use cases for avoiding casting
      with generic collections has gone away, 
     IN THE SAME RELEASE
11:19 < Karl> I like this use of generics:
11:19 < stephan> thats so funny.
11:19 < jstrachan> so hey, we have 2 solutions for the price of 
      one :)
{code}

